User talk:XEL
Technically there's no canon policy, so I kind of stole the Star Wars version. The novel contradicts the game, but the game takes precedence. Even if the novel is canon*, it is not canon where it contradicts the game (which means most of the novel isn't canon). (*By my theory it is not, since Rosenberg is not a Blizzard employee.) PsiSeveredHead 22:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC) Warp Gate The Warp Gate used in the first Protoss mission is the "last functioning Gate on Aiur". Even if Fenix and Raynor were using a different Warp Gate than the first one, all the non-combatants could have fled through it while the Gate was still relatively guarded. The Shel'na Kryhas in Shadow Hunters were stranded only three days after the retreat was announced. PsiSeveredHead 02:42, 17 March 2008 (UTC) It seemed to be a different Warp Gate which didn't lead to Shakuras and was located in different part of Aiur. So, nothing wrong here XEL Unless the Protoss were very wrong in "Escape from Aiur", there should only be one Warp Gate. But let's suppose there was more than one. The Warp Gate that was discussed in Shadow Hunters was shut down when the Protoss evacuated, stranding several. It doesn't matter which Warp Gate there was. The Warp Gate in "Emperor's Flight" could have be used to travel to a sanctuary, even if it wasn't Shakuras. Fenix and Raynor had the ability to leave Aiur and travel to places like Tarsonis, Braxis, Moria and Korhal, all after the destruction of the "Escape from Aiur" Gate. It doesn't make sense that any Protoss civilians would have been stranded when they had two different methods of getting away from Aiur. PsiSeveredHead 00:06, 18 March 2008 (UTC) From "Emperor's Flight" I got the impression that this Warp Gate was reopened specifically to transport Mengks and Raynor from Aiur. And iit obviously didn't lead to Shakuras As for interstellar travel, it seems that Raynor and Fenix's stronghold was in the different part of Aiur that Shel'na Kryhas. And Fenix's forces were scattered and/or decimated after Fenix's death. XEL Raynor and Fenix were present at the Warp Gate at the beginning of Shadow Hunters, which was closed (and shot) at the end of the evacuation. Why would Raynor and Fenix abandon the remaining Protoss civilians? PsiSeveredHead 21:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC) Edit war over Tassadar Meco is an administrator at the wiki. Please don't revert his edits. He has perfectly good reasons for making them. PsiSeveredHead 23:32, 24 March 2008 (UTC) Well, the only thing I'm telling is that the idea that Tassadar's victpry was hollow makes no sense. No offence Meco. XEL Except it was hollow. See this quote: "The resulting massive explosion killed the Overmind and threw its minions on Aiur into disarray. The protoss had little cause to rejoice, though, for much of Aiur was left in ruins. Furthermore, the zerg race itself was undefeated. Far away on the planet Char, Kerrigan felt the death of the Overmind and finally grasped the true purpose of her creation. The reign of the Queen of Blades was about to begin." Source: http://www.starcraft2.com/features/storysofar.xml (Story So Far part 1) And this, from the epilogue of the original StarCraft: "As the chaotic, swirling energies subsided, a heavy silence settled over the battlefields of Aiur. Due to Tassadar's noble sacrifice, the Overmind was now dead and the Zerg Swarms were scattered and broken. But as the heroes surveyed their once glorious homeland, they realized that their victory had cost them all but their lives. Aiur was left nothing more than a smoldering ruin. Those few Protoss who survived the final battle could only wonder what the future would hold for their race. And far away, on the distant planet Char, Kerrigan, the self-styled Queen of Blades, knew that the time of her ascension was at hand. " It's been lore for ten years that the victory was pyrrhic. PsiSeveredHead 23:52, 6 April 2008 (UTC) Tassadar saved the universe from Protoss/Zerg Hybrid Overmind was going to ceate on Aiur. This is Tassadar's true achievment. aiur was lost yes, but the creation was saved. Yes, Duran was going to start a new Hybrid threat, but this is almost 5 years after the Overmind's and could be avoided (in SC2). XEL You're not invading. (Kimera 757 and PsiSeveredHead are the same person.) We could add the Antioch Chronicles. We probably couldn't add a lot of info without permission from Auspex, though, so I'll be sure to ask him. Kimera 757 (talk) 23:03, 17 November 2008 (UTC) I know you are, I meant invading into the Stellar Forces discussion =) It would be great to add it. TAC has its own story arc, fitting perfectly into SC storyline. There was some discrepancy in a short story regarding timing of SOK formation, but it was written before Uprising came out. XEL 09:12, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Re: Timeline There are a few reasons why the xel'naga's arrival seems to fit better in with Ancient History IMO: -First, there's the seperation of times. According to protoss texts, the xel'naga arrived in the Milky Way millions of years ago. While that may seem like a long time, that's nothing compared to the billions of years that takes us back to the early stages of the universe. Granted, we only have fragmented texts that probably based themselves on what the xel'naga told their creations, but still, the MA designation is part of recorded history and the earliest known date for the xel'naga entering the Milky Way. Far removed from the universe's early stages. Granted, the xel'naga's activities could have begun much earlier. That the role of the hybrid was apparantly pre-ordained when the stars were young speaks for itself. Current estimates hold that the Milky Way is nearly as old as the universe itself. However, it would be very difficult for any life to form so early as per current science. The early stars, most, if not all of them blue giants, had exceptionally short lifespans. That, and the ammount of radiation they gave off, would make it impossible to develop life. StarCraft, being science fiction, can ignore this if it chooses to, but suffice to say, there's no concrete evidence that the xel'naga were spawning life for billions of years. The "millions" claim is all we have. And given the ammount of time between the two eras, and that it remains to be seen whether the xel'naga are the "far greater power" that Duran mentions (probably are, but you never know), the xel'naga's entry into the Milky Way fits better into Ancient History. Unlike Duran's claims, we have actual documentation.--Hawki 10:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC) The Xel'Naga could have began the cycle long before they arrived to the Milky Way. In my edit, I placed their arrival to the MW after the start of the cycle. "When the stars were young" means when the stars as a type of celestial body were young. When you say, for example. "when the human race was young", you don't mean "when the first humans were young", but "not long after the human race came to existance". So, the entry about the stars in Distant Past is pretty much correct. XEL 11:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC) When we're unsure When we're unsure about something (eg who Executor (Episode IV) is) we generally put information in the notes section along with references. Executor (Enslavers II) is probably Executor (Episode IV) but we're not really sure. It doesn't help that Blizzard may or may not have retconned numerous characters, especially player characters. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 22:05, December 24, 2010 (UTC) :Your last edit to Executor (Episode IV) was more like it :) PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 22:13, December 24, 2010 (UTC) Breaking References or Improper Referencing The wiki has a policy on referencing and breaking references here: Referencing#Breaking_References. A reference is supposed to support the statement on the wiki. Changing a statement in front of a reference without changing the reference is not acceptable. You would have to use a reference to support the new statement. Furthermore, adding information from another source in front of a reference is also not acceptable. This is called "breaking a reference". PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 18:53, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :Actually, my edit wasn't breaking the reference since the briefing of The Hunt for Tassadar takes place on Gantrithor and the picture just before the briefing says "Protoss command ship Gantrithor. Holding orbit over the planet Char". The reference was to The Hunt for Tassadar and the info about Gantrithor being Artanis' command ship during his mission to arrest Tass comes from this mission. XEL 19:11, December 31, 2010 (UTC) To Kimera Sorry for taking so long. I was busy with non-wiki stuff. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:00, January 6, 2011 (UTC) Hi again! As you suggested, I'll start the discussion surrounding several articles here in my talk page (much of the follwing is a repost of what I sent you in PMs on SC Legacy): About your edit on the Tarsonis System article. The SC manual makes it clear that Umoja and Moria are located within this system and, to this date, no canonical source has ever actually contradicted this. It took sixty years for Tarsonians to develop sub-warp engines (IIRC it was never really clarified what sub-warp engines are compared to the regular warp drive), which they used to explore the system, discovering the other two colonies, so the manual doesn't really contradict itself. XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) "After twenty-eight years of warp travel, the huge ships emerged into real space near the edge of a habitable star system. Some 60,000 light years from the Earth, their engines destroyed and their life-support batteries nearly exhausted, the ships engaged their emergency protocols and plummeted towards the nearest habitable worlds in the system." It certainly sounds like one star system there. However, later sources have made it clear this is a retcon. It would be appropriate to note the old text in the notes section. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:00, January 6, 2011 (UTC) Also, I'd like to discuss articles about Gantrithor and Tassadar: It's is very obvious from the opening image of The Hunt for Tassadar that the Gantrithor returned to Aiur. And it actually makes sense, because the fact that Zamara was stuck at the Gantrithor doesn't really contradict anything. I'm implying that Gantrithor returned back to Aiur some time after Kerrigan decimating Tassadar's and Zeratul's armies (i.e. after Eye for an Eye*'). It fits perfectly with the fact that Zamara was on Char for some time (since the Gantrithor itself indeed was on Char for some time). And it is directly said at the start of The Hunt for Tassadar that the mission briefing takes place aboard Gantrithor, which is "Protoss Command Ship", so obviously Aldaris and Artanis arrived at Char on Gantrithor. I think we can keep that edit of mine, which mentions Gantrithor returning. XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) The Hunt for Tassadar is a pretty good source for that, ''but other sources conflict heavily with this. Having Zamara "go back" with the Gantrithor (when she said she would stay with Tassadar) while the protoss ships were still hiding on Char (Tassadar only had one, and we know from Twilight it was the Ganrithor) is walking into speculation. Best to leave this alone, and put a note in the notes section. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:00, January 6, 2011 (UTC) On the topic of the Tassadar article, it's the matter of him wiping out the Conclave. I'm sorry about my mistake conscerning Twilight Archon, I only have the Russian version of this manga at the time. Rihod says "the council" (which would mean the de facto leaders of the Protoss by the time of the evacuation: Aldaris, Zeratul, Fenix and Artanis), not "the Conclave". But even so, at least some surviving members of the Conclave are clearly present in both The Trial of Tassadar (trialling a suspend-animated Tass) and Eye of the Storm (admitting they were wrong and sending backup), so there must've been at least some survivivors among the Conclave left after Tass whooped them (and Zamara may not be all that tipped off about the final events of the Great War, since IIRC she wasn't on Aiur at the time). As for the Judicators mention you seem to have misunderstood me: I was implying that Zamara's mention of the Judicator's caste members could have meant her elaborating on the statement that the Conclave was killed: "the memebers of the Judicator caste still survive Conclave as the actual Protoss, but there is no Conclave an organization", but I'm unsure here and may very well be wrong, since although my knowledge of English is good, it's not perfect enough to understand all possible semantics. This statement is not my primary arguement. All in all, I suggest we change "wiped out the entire Conclave" to "wiped out most of the Conclave". That would also be coherent with other articles conscerning the Protoss Civil War, where it says that many memebers of the Conclave died in the assault on the Heart and the remaining ones were later killed by the Zerg. XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) That seems pretty reasonable. The Ara Tribe matter. Its description from SC manual doesn't say anywhere in it that the tribe was formed from Khas associates, just that the Ara was the first who joined Khas (and if we try common sense: how could the Ara Tribe join Khas, if they were formed by those who already joined him?). TDTS only further confirms that they existed during the AoS. XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) We know they existed during the Aeon of Strife, but I think this one requires more discussion. Khas had left the Shelak Tribe. He went back to the Shelak Tribe, making them his first recruits. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:00, January 6, 2011 (UTC) On the other hand, it did note that they were the first tribe to join after the Aeon of Strife. It might be possible to use your edit there, but a few changes would be needed. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:14, January 6, 2011 (UTC) As for Revelations, here's an excerpt from SC manual (Protoss section, chapter about humanity and the arrival of the Zerg): "The entire surface of the colony had been covered with a thick, toxic substance that continued to erode the planet’s crust. To make matters worse, the aliens themselves had either infested or slaughtered '''most of the human colonists." XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) According to Revelations, Madrid wasn't aware of any zerg presence. (As Tassadar had said, they were hidden.) "“Although the Swarm itself had not yet reached the planet, its advanced hive spores had. Your technology was unable to detect the subtle infestation, but I assure you that it was there. My superiors ordered the planet burned to prevent the infestation from spreading to any more of your worlds,” Tassadar said. “Though I grieve for the loss of every Terran life on Chau Sara, I fear that many more of your kind will die if the Swarm’s rampage is not stopped. The Swarm is the most dire threat that this galaxy has ever known.” “I had no idea….” Madrid whispered." There's no reasonable way this could agree with what was in the manual. Madrid might not have ever seen a zerg (hard to imagine with them openly attacking cities; yes the Confederacy hid the news, but they were keeping info from leaking from Chau Sara) but Madrid would have noticed the majority of the planet being covered in creep. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:11, January 6, 2011 (UTC) And that's the only thing the manual ever says about the number of colonists wiped out on Chau Sara by the time of the purification. Besides, we can try common sense: if all of the colonists were already wiped out, Tassadar wouldn't have any regrets about incineraing Chau Sara. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:00, January 6, 2011 (UTC) You're not entirely correct about me not reading the sources before editing: I've read Liberty's Crusade (Chapter 14 makes it clear that street fighting in Tarsonis City's western districts took place during The Big Push when the crashed battlecruiser set building in fore) before editing Fall of Tarsonis article.XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) While that part was true (a crashed battlecruiser in the western precincts), having the Rangers/SoK descend in a crashing battlecruiser was speculation. No mention was made of a harrowing fall to the ground, or to a crazy plan, or for nearly being shot down, etc. That could have been a Confederate battlecruiser. We just don't know. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:11, January 6, 2011 (UTC) I also sis a research on other canonical sources before editing the Shadow of the Xel'Naga article Accuracy section. And althought I admit that I don't clearly recall Chapter 30 (thus, I'm apparently wornd about the goliaths part) because I didn't have access o an English version of the novel for quiet some time, my following points still stand: Player color is really more of a gameplay aspect rather than storyline's: there are "Orange" Zerg even after Garm Brood's destruction and we play as Purple player in Episode II, even though this is clearly not Jormungand Brood the young Cerebrate commands. So, the "white cerebrate" from Shadow Hunters may not have been Gorn. XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) A valid point. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:11, January 6, 2011 (UTC) Kerrigan could have some influence over Tiamat if the Second Overmind isn't created during the novel's events, which is not clarified. XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) There's nothing to indicate Daggoth had somehow lost control of his brood (despite having the power to command half the Swarm and tell cerebrates what to do). That's a violation of parsimony and common sense. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:11, January 6, 2011 (UTC) Protoss have been occasionally portayed as three-fingered (see Tassadar's action figure). As for the reavers, some of models could've easily had hatches to transport infantry, I can't see why would that be that much of a discrepancy. XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) I don't even remember why we were discussing reavers. That probably vanished in the rest of the edit war. But as for the protoss, every official piece of artwork made by Blizzard has them with two fingers and two thumbs per hand. StarCraft I and StarCraft II and the manga too. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:11, January 6, 2011 (UTC) *''' namely the part of the mission which features "their Templar armies were decimated" moment. As shown in Queen of Blades, the end of Eye for an Eye map (which features the bit of the actual dialogue between Zeratul and Kerrigan that are used as lines in Chapter 20 of the novel) takes place near the end of Kerrigan's hunt (shortly before Tassadar slaying the Cerebrate), which essentially makes the map's gameplay a summarized version of the entire hunt '['and the text after Eye for an Eye actually supports this saying (I'm paraphrasing here a bit) "Tassadar's and Zeratul's Templar armies have been decimated, but that they escaped and Kerrigan begins to hunt them down. Meanwhile, the Swarm invades Aiur"]', thus eliminating the suggested discrepancy of the map not being properly addressed in the novel. I'm sorry if my explantion is a bit elaborate (in fact, I have to admit that it ''is), but it does make quiet a fair amount of sense if you consider it and think about it. XEL 07:28, January 3, 2011 (UTC) We've already been over this one at Legacy. For this to make any sense, we have to assume the novel is not only skipping massive important events, but that Raynor was asleep during them, that any and all protoss losses were not noted. In addition, the jumbling of the conversations between Kerrigan and Tassadar and Zeratul make this impossible. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:11, January 6, 2011 (UTC) In any event, given the controversial and speculative nature of many of your changes, I would appreciate it if you discuss further changes on the talk page first. Also, don't assume because an argument is over that you have "won" and then impose the previously reverted change. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 01:14, January 6, 2011 (UTC)